Former Submit Workplace leader government Paula Vennells has two times damaged indisposed in tears as she apologised to subpostmasters all through the primary of 3 days of dramatic testimony on the Horizon IT scandal inquiry.
She insisted she didn’t know till 2012 that the Submit Workplace performed its personal non-public legal investigations, regardless of becoming a member of the organisation in 2007.
Ms Vennells instructed the inquiry “it was an accepted reality, it was a status quo that I joined and accepted”, including: “I shouldn’t have done.”
The previous Submit Workplace boss additionally mentioned she was once “too trusting” of the guidelines she have been given day leader government, and needful indisposed in tears when challenged over her claims in 2012 that the courts had present in favour of the Submit Workplace “in every instance” towards subpostmasters – regardless of more than one acquittals having already taken playground.
She additionally needful indisposed in tears when requested about her reaction to the demise of former subpostmaster Martin Griffiths, who died following an tried suicide in 2013.
Greater than 700 subpostmasters have been wrongly prosecuted and passed legal convictions between 1999 and 2015 because of Fujitsu’s inaccurate Horizon IT machine – which made it seem as even though cash was once lacking at their branches.
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Lord Arbuthnot says Vennells’ testimony is an ‘astonishing announcement of her ignorance’
Lord Arbuthnot, James Arbuthnot, a member of the Horizon Reimbursement Advisory Board has instructed Instances Radio that Former Submit Workplace boss Paula Vennells testimony is an “astonishing announcement of her ignorance” and is “displaying an incompetence of gargantuan scale”
He mentioned: “It’s an astonishing announcement of her ignorance of what the organisation of which she was chief executive was actually doing and I think Sir William’s reaction was a bit of incredulity. How could you not know that your organisation was prosecuting hundreds and hundreds of sub-postmasters.
“The question is, is it credible? She was either telling the truth but displaying an incompetence of gargantuan scale or she was not telling the truth.”
He additionally unfavourable her argument that she didn’t know concerning the prosecutions: “For one thing, I wrote to Moira Green, her predecessor chief executive, in 2011 and got a letter back from her, from Paula Vennells, talking about the prosecutions.
“So, to say that she didn’t know until after she’d written the letter to me about prosecutions strikes me as being just not credible.”
Archie Mitchell22 Might 2024 14:18
Paula Vennells accused of asking group to ‘dig into’ lifeless guy’s information
Maryam Zakir-Hussain22 Might 2024 13:58
Vennells won direct correspondence from subpostmasters having problems with the pc machine from 2012, inquiry hears
The Horizon IT Inquiry heard that Paula Vennells won direct correspondence from subpostmasters having problems with the pc machine from 2012.
Ms Vennells despatched an electronic mail nearest receiving pledge from subpostmaster Pervez Nakvi about Horizon problems in February 2012, through which the previous Submit Workplace leader government mentioned: “It is very frustrating to receive mails like this. Pervez is right to raise it.
“It is my understanding that Horizon is reliable…but if trusted individuals like Pervez are now not feeling that is the case are we monitoring the right metrics?”
Requested if it was once related that they have been a relied on particular person, she mentioned: “I responded to all complaints in the exact same way. It would not have made a difference whether I knew the subpostmaster or not.”
Pressed on whether or not all proceedings raised by way of subpostmasters would name for investigation, Ms Vennells mentioned: “I would hope so. I’m sure there are cases where that was not the case but I would have tried to.”
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Maryam Zakir-Hussain22 Might 2024 13:46
Paula Vennells breaks into tears once more over ‘disturbing’ experiences from postmasters
Paula Vennells has damaged into tears for a 3rd age amid a grilling about what she known as “disturbing” experiences from postmasters because the Horizon IT scandal opened up.
She was once requested about 8 examples of proceedings from postmasters who had implemented for mediation in 2013.
Nearest studying the proceedings, she wrote an electronic mail to a workman pronouncing: “Apart from finding them very disturbing, I defy anyone not to, I’m now even better informed.”
She described the “dreadful” monetary affects on some postmasters and mentioned she sought after to proportion their tales with colleagues.
However, relating to a 2015 choice by way of the previous Submit Workplace leader to near the mediation scheme, inquiry suggest Jason Beer KC requested what came about between that call and her discovering the instances “disturbing”.
“When did they cease to become very disturbing?” he requested.
Ms Vennells needful into tears prior to pronouncing not anything have been discovered within the mediation procedure and there have been “explanations” for what had came about in each case.
“I’m very sorry we didn’t reach the right conclusion on these cases,” she added.
Archie Mitchell22 Might 2024 13:37
Fujitsu leader described Horizon like ‘Fort Knox’, Vennells mentioned
Fujitsu Europe’s then-chief government described the core of Horizon like “Fort Knox” or an “aircraft flight recorder” when discussing faraway get right of entry to, Paula Vennells mentioned in her first observer commentary.
Ms Vennells and Duncan Tait, Fujitsu Europe’s then-CEO, concurred it was once “implausible” that Submit Workplace segment accounts might be altered remotely, Ms Vennells mentioned when detailing her figuring out of faraway get right of entry to as of July 3 2013.
She mentioned she requested Mr Tait if a Fujitsu workman may adjust segment accounts remotely, and mentioned his reaction was once negative and “we concurred it was an implausible scenario”.
She added: “Why would a Fujitsu colleague try to hack into a branch’s accounts? We couldn’t find any suitable explanation – there was no way they could benefit financially from such an action. The only possible reason would be a malicious act by a disgruntled employee.
“Duncan described the core of Horizon like a black box, ie., similar to an aircraft flight recorder; he said that even if someone wanted to, it was not possible to alter or break it.
“I had heard the black box description before. He described how secure the system was – that even if someone had the motivation, it just wasn’t possible – Horizon was like Fort Knox. I found it reassuring that the CEO of Fujitsu confirmed that there was no cause for concern and that the system could not be tampered with.”
Andy Gregory22 Might 2024 13:24
Paula Vennells questions why she didn’t see record blackmail Horizon ‘not fit for purpose’
Paula Vennells has mentioned she does no longer know why she was once no longer proven a 2013 record blackmail that Submit Workplace techniques have been “not fit for purpose in a modern retail and financial environment” – and mentioned she isn’t positive she even knew that corporate Detica have been wearing it out.
Ms Vennells mentioned: “I find it very strange that it wasn’t brought to me, not just to my attention, but to the attention of everybody else who had responsibilities in terms of the running of the Post Office.”
Requested whether or not it was once a significant failure by way of Lesley Sewell, Chris Aujard and Angela van den Bogerd – who all seem to have had get right of entry to to the record – to not tell her, Ms Vennells mentioned: “I find it very strange that it wasn’t brought to my – and it isn’t just to my attention, it’s the attention of everybody else who had responsibilities in terms of the running of the Post Office.
Pressed on whether she had “any clue why they would want to keep you, the executive, and the board, out of this information”, she mentioned: “No I don’t. And I don’t recall either that they were colleagues that I would have suspected were witholding something from the board, or myself.
“I don’t understand why the report didn’t progress.”
Andy Gregory22 Might 2024 13:18
Jailed subpostmaster expresses condolense for Vennells
Former subpostmaster Janet Skinner – who was once sentenced to 9 months in jail in 2007 for fraudelant accounting – expressed condolense for Paula Vennells in giving proof to a room of nation with “eyes full of hatred”.
“I’ll be honest I felt quite emotional this morning,” Ms Skinner instructed the PA information company. “I actually felt emotional for her because she is up there and she has got all these eyes there that are just full of hatred towards her and that must be such an overwhelming, horrible, intense feeling.”
However she mentioned Ms Vennells “has brought it all on herself” prior to proceeding: “This is her time on that stand to now put her side of the story out there. Everybody has chucked mud at her, it’s time for her to open up and be quite open and honest about who was at the forefront of it all.”
Andy Gregory22 Might 2024 13:08
Paula Vennells pressed on giant group investigating subpostmasters
Paula Vennells has been pressed as soon as once more by way of manage suggest Richard Beer KC on how she had no longer realised the Submit Workplace had a giant group prosecuting subpostmasters when chatting with former head of safety John Scott nearest the 2nd Optic record.
Mr Beer mentioned: “When you spoke to John Scott about this, did you not say: ‘I’ve been in the organisation five or six years now, I didn’t know you had a team of 100 people that were investigating up and down the country subpostmasters and sending them to prison’.”
He added: “Dozens of prosecutions occurred when you were network director, dozens of prosecutions occurred when you were managing director – collectively hundreds of prosecutions went on, conducted by the Post Office, having been investigated by the Post Office – and you didn’t know about it until 2012.
“So when you spoke to [former head of security] John Scott, did you not say: ‘how’s this all been going on? Who’s been managing you? Why doesn’t the board know about this?’”
Ms Vennells spoke back that on the age she said to Mr Scott “all that had changed” as a result of “we had stopped prosecutions, his team had been substantially reduced in number and we were looking into the complaints made by the subpostmasters”.
Andy Gregory22 Might 2024 13:00
Inquiry chair presses Vennells over claims to not realise Submit Workplace prosecuted its personal group of workers
The inquiry’s chair Sir Wyn Williams has stepped in to quiz Paula Vennells over her claims to not have realised the Submit Workplace prosecuted its personal group of workers till 2012 – regardless of becoming a member of the organisation in 2007.
Ms Vennells instructed the inquiry “it was an accepted reality, it was a status quo that I joined and accepted”, including: “I shouldn’t have done.”
This precipitated Sir Wyn to interject: “Isn’t an accepted reality an acknowledgement of an awareness of the reality? Mr Beer’s pressing you on how it could possibly be that you weren’t aware of the use of a function which was highly unusual for a private company.”
She spoke back: “I agree, Sir Wyn. The way that Mr Beer describes it is that it was a function that one didn’t hear about. We knew about cases being prosecuted, and I can’t remember – the Post Office board met infrequently – whether there were significant litigation reports that came to the Post Office board before I became chief executive.
“I can’t remember, but I think everybody’s understanding – mine included – was that where prosecutions were conducted, they were conducted by external authorities.”
However Sir Wyn famous: “There was at least one case two years before 2012 – Mrs Misra’s case – which attracted great deal of publicity. It does seem extremely surprising that it didn’t filter through at that point that it was actually the Post Office that was prosecuting, not the CPS.”
Ms Vennells mentioned: “I agree. I haven’t seen anything in the documentation that points to the fact that one would have known that”, prompting Sir Wyn to interject: “I don’t think I need documentation to infer that this might be a point of discussion among senior people.”
Ms Vennells mentioned: “I apologise. My point about documentation was whether there was anything that would have prompted my memory. I have no recollection of being involved in conversations about Mrs Misra’s case … there were not, as far as I know, discussions about the fact it was Post Office who had investigated and brought the prosecution.”
Andy Gregory22 Might 2024 12:47
Paula Vennells says she was once ‘surprised’ to be told Submit Workplace prosecuted its personal group of workers
Paula Vennells has insisted she didn’t know till 2012 that the Submit Workplace performed its personal non-public legal investigations.
Requested about notes from a gathering in 2008 which presentations trainee investigators and the sums reclaimed from postmasters have been mentioned, Ms Vennells mentioned it will be an affordable inference to attract from the record that the Submit Workplace was once for my part recouping cash from its personal group of workers – however insisted she had no longer taken that from the assembly herself.
She added: “I should have known and I should have asked more questions, and I and others who also didn’t know should have dug much more deeply into this.”
Ms Vennells mentioned she was once “surprised” to be told in 2012 that the Submit Workplace prosecuted its personal group of workers, and mentioned she recalled negative dialogue of that within the years she had served at the Submit Workplace’s possibility and compliance committee.
Andy Gregory22 Might 2024 12:37